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Winter Sonata

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Winter Sonata was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete and move content from Winter Sonata (drama) to Winter Sonata.

Hi, This page is now an orphaned redirect to Winter Sonata (drama) after a move + a fix on all the links pointing originally to this page. Gtabary 15:21, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • Keep, there's nothing wrong with redirects even if they are orphaned. For future reference by the way redirects for deletion should be listed at Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 15:32, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Why did you move Winter Sonata to Winter Sonata (drama) if you have nothing to put at Winter Sonata? I'd say move it back and delete the resulting redir at Winter Sonata (drama) (after reverting the link changes). Clearly the redir at Winter Sonata shouldn't be deleted--redirs aren't just about article links, but also links from the rest of the Web, and Go box searches. Niteowlneils 15:38, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Question of consistency. There was a serie of movie/drama entries with more or less common names ( like Hotelier for instance.) So I started to fix some, and realised it should be all. If its clear there is no need to delete an orphaned redirect, I suggest this vfd to be over. Thanks for Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion link. Gtabary 16:09, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision): "The basic rule is that, unless you are absolutely sure that a related usage deserves or has an article, no disambigutation is necessary." The fact that Hotelier is now a red link seems undesirable to me. Until other articles get written, I think Hotelier (drama) should be there. Or, at a minimum, Hotelier should be a redir or disamb page. People typing "hotelier" in the Go box will probably only find Hotelier (drama) when real-time search is working. The first cut of an article for the only other usage of "Hotelier" that I am aware of would very likely be put on VfD as a 'dic def' (tho' it might survive if voters proved it could expand into something encyclopedic), and, according to Wikipedia:Disambiguation, "It is acceptable to provide short descriptions within the disambiguation page for subjects which at present do not have their own articles (see below), but this should never be done for a subject where an actual article about it would immediately end up on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion." In general, I prefer a K.I.S.S. approach, like Blood Brothers and The Blood Brothers, instead of Blood Brothers (musical) and The Blood Brothers (band). Niteowlneils 16:57, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
PS There's only two articles looking for "hotelier" as a dic def[1]--other uses of "Hotelier" in articles link to Hotel. Niteowlneils 17:10, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Dictionary definitions should be searched and found in dictionaries, not wikipedia, User:Chan Han Xiang. Furthermore, just putting up Hotelier will do.
I indeed already updated links to Winter Sonata and Hotelier and everywhere to make it consistent. Gtabary 16:40, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Oops, I'm responsible for the move and delete of hotelier. Didn't know it was being discussed here. Anyway, I'd like to see a description of the profession on that page with a link to the drama. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 19:22, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
    • As mentioned above, a description of the profession is likely to be VfD'd as a dictdef. Kappa 00:19, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete it instead. Wyss 21:46, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete this Winter Sonata as redirect and restore original content from Winter Sonata (drama) and delete there after that. No other articles or topics have the same name but different topic as the Winter Sonata drama. No need to add the (drama) suffix. Eg of a drama without a suffix: Spin City. No need (drama)/(movie) suffix at all, as there is no disambiguation. User:Chan Han Xiang
    • supporting this, I couldn't google up anything else even vaguely notable called 'winter sonata'. Kappa 07:30, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Well, that was simple enough; nuked one, moved the other. They were identical, so it was obviously a copy-paste move. This was never a candidate for VfD, at worst it was an RfD. Let's get back to work now, shall we? --Golbez 11:24, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

Note that now all the articles Gtabary did this to, seem to have copies at both locations, using cut&paste moves and some now have lengthy histories at _both_ locations now--see Summer Scent and Summer Scent (drama). A) This is one of the reasons why disambiguating when not necessary is a REALLY BAD IDEA, and B) Someone now needs to merge them all back. Niteowlneils 02:10, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

PS Hopefully this is a complete list of articles with seriously messed up histories due to the same combination of mistakes (unnecessary disamb followed by c&p revert): Everybody Has Secrets/Everybody Has Secrets (movie), All In/All In (drama),Untold Scandal/Untold Scandal (movie), Summer Scent/Summer Scent (drama), and True To Love/True To Love (drama). Niteowlneils 02:46, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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