Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates
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This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section – it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
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Glossary[edit]
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps[edit]
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
Headers[edit]
Voicing an opinion on an item[edit]Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do...[edit]
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Suggesting updates[edit]There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items:
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Archives
[edit]Archives of posted stories: Wikipedia:In the news/Posted/Archives
Sections
[edit]This page contains a section for each day and a sub-section for each nomination. To see the size and title of each section, please expand the following section size summary.
October 21
[edit]
October 21, 2024
(Monday)
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October 20
[edit]
October 20, 2024
(Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Politics and elections
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(Closed) 2024 Indonesian general election
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Prabowo Subianto is elected President of Indonesia (Post)
News source(s): al-Jazeera
Credits:
- Nominated by Abo Yemen (talk · give credit)
- Oppose: The election was already posted when it occurred. I don't believe we post inaugurations. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 16:27, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
October 19
[edit]
October 19, 2024
(Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
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RD: Michel Klein (veterinarian)
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
French veterinarian and animal rights activist often seen on television. Needs expansion. Thriley (talk) 17:22, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. The stubbiest of the stubs. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:55, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment He was 103. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
2024 America's Cup
[edit]Blurb: Team New Zealand wins the America's Cup yacht racing competition for a third time in succession. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Team New Zealand wins the America's Cup yacht racing competition for a third time in succession by defeating the Royal Yacht Squadron.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
- Nominated by Schwede66 (talk · give credit)
Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
The article needs some TLC and I hope that somebody can attend to it; personally, sailing doesn't spin my wheels. Schwede66 01:26, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: The event is known and branded as the 37th America's Cup. JoltColaOfEvil (talk) 22:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Needs major update; lots about qualifying, background, challengers, but very little about the cup races themselves and no aftermath or results sections, nothing about the coverage of the event. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
Yemeni civil war (2014–present)
[edit]Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cfr.org/index.php/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/war-yemen, Various
Credits:
- Nominated by Wafflefrites (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Wafflefrites (talk) 20:58, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment — Are you seeking to add the Yemeni civil war to ongoing? If so, you will need to provide continuous and significant coverage. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment assuming this meant ongoing it would be difficult to keep up to date and keep there considering the challenge of reliable information about it 27.96.223.193 (talk) 22:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle but oppose on quality This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 23:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This is a very slow event, with the pages showing far less than expected of close-to-daily updates to merit a slot in ongoing. It needs to be something that has news coverage nearly every day and stays updated to reflect that. --Masem (t) 00:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Masem. Bitspectator ⛩️ 00:58, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose only 5 edits to the article the article this month and most of them are just fixing typos. Looking through the first page of edits that date back to June I don't see a single substantial edit that has added any new newsworthy events... "ongoing" would suggest that there are frequent newsworthy events, so frequent that they'd otherwise overwhelm ITN if not for the fact that they'd already be covered by the topic's "ongoing" placement. RachelTensions (talk) 01:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support the idea, oppose in practice Yes the war in Yemen is just as relevant and valid as the war in Sudan or in Israel, however, almost nobody is editing it, and there really hasn't been any significant development coinciding with it's nomination. Scuba 04:33, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose there has been an ongoing truce since 2021. There have been no new battles as far as I am aware Abo Yemen✉ 11:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Abo Yemen: Shouldn't the article make this clear then and even be called Yemeni civil war (2014–2021) if its now only a low-level insurgency? Abcmaxx (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support notability but oppose on quality The article does not make it clear how intense the fighting is currently, does not show if anything has happened since 2021, and if Abo Yemen's comment above is true then the article should really make this clear. Background and introduction of a complex geopolitical situation is welcome, but the article really does not describe much of the actual war itself. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
October 18
[edit]
October 18, 2024
(Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
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RD: Rick Nolan
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Former US Congressman. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 21:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Ginés González García
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Nación, CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Cambalachero (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Minister of health of Argentina during the COVID-19 pandemic. Cambalachero (talk) 18:32, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm working on this article, improving its content and sources. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- work done. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks decent, no glaring issues. Scuba 15:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Internet Archive cyberattack
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: The Internet Archive suffered a DDoS attack that made its services unusable since October 9, compromising the data of 31 million users. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, NBC, Forbes,
Credits:
- Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
- Created by MountainDew20 (talk · give credit)
- This story was already nominated when it occurred, and rejected from ITN. Being over a week old makes it stale news, so even less likely to be posted. I recommend withdrawing this nomination. Modest Genius talk 14:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose and best withdrawn per above. Rejected, stale, and the page is in no shape to be posted anyway. Estreyeria (talk) 14:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose duplicate rejected and stale nom as per Modest Genius. GhostStalker (Got a present for ya! / Mission Log) 14:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
October 17
[edit]
October 17, 2024
(Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
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Rigathi Gachagua impeachment
[edit]Blurb: Kenyan Deputy President Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached in a landmark vote. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached as the deputy president of Kenya by the parliament.
Alternative blurb II: In Kenya, deputy president Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached by the parliament.
News source(s): france 24
Credits:
- Nominated by Sportsnut24 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by MAL MALDIVE (talk · give credit)
Article needs updating
Somewhat of a long shot as he was the deputy, but it is pretty high and a notable first.Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Seems fine. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 08:55, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- There probably should be at least a paragraph or more explaining why he was impeached, not just that he was. There's no clear indication what brought the impeachment charges. --Masem (t) 11:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. As far as I can tell, this is domestic politics with no broader impact, and the deputy president has few powers anyway. There's little coverage in international media. It's possible that I'm missing some wider significance, but if so it isn't explained in the article, this nomination or the France 24 article provided above. Modest Genius talk 14:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support notability, oppose on quality impeachments are rare and notable events, however, really there should be a comprehensive article called Impeachment of Rigathi Gachagua which outlines all the background, issues, causes, aftermath and reactions accordingly. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Modest Genius. It also seems like local news to me. It may have been notable if it was the president who was impeached. LiamKorda 17:26, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Per abcmaxx Ion.want.uu (talk) 20:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: Only the deputy president. C F A 💬 03:12, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - not a head of state LocoTacoFever (talk) 21:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Philip Zimbardo
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Legacy
Credits:
- Nominated by TheCorriynial (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Philip Zimbardo died on 14th, but announced today. Philip Zimbardo, a psychologist conducted the now mostly discredited Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971 which at the time was studying the effect on situational variables on participants' reactions and behaviors. The experiment is now an example of what not to do in psychological studies. He's also been involved in several other studies in more recent years and is also a writer. TheCorriynial (talk) 23:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support The article seems fine. And his experiment sounds just like Wikipedia, showing "...the ease with which ordinary people could be led to engage in anti-social acts by putting them in situations where they felt anonymous, or they could perceive of others in ways that made them less than human, as enemies or objects..." Andrew🐉(talk) 08:27, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's no fun in solitary... (you don't even get access to your bucket).Martinevans123 (talk) 08:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support: I have added/tweaked a couple of references. Good article and clearly notable subject. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks good. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, as the article is well-sourced and notable. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems all right to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose 30–40% of Philip Zimbardo § Works missing ISBN, ISSN, or some citation. A few even display "ISBN" with no subsequent ID.—Bagumba (talk) 04:41, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- These details are not needed as there's an {{authority control}}. For example, the first entry is "Influencing attitude and changing behavior: A basic introduction to relevant methodology, theory, and applications (Topics in social psychology), Addison Wesley, 1969". This is already quite adequate but, if it should still be doubted then one can just uses the authority control to find an entry like this. The entry is quite uncontroversial and so does not require an extraordinary level of referencing. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Readers on mobile, which accounts for at at least half the viewers, dont see that, and it's anyways a WP:LINKFARM on where an item might actually be verified. ITN is as much a drive to get pages enhanced. If the info is, in fact, readily available, adding it should be straightforward, and an improvement. In any event, feel free to establish a wider consensus for a looser standard. —Bagumba (talk) 10:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- These details are not needed as there's an {{authority control}}. For example, the first entry is "Influencing attitude and changing behavior: A basic introduction to relevant methodology, theory, and applications (Topics in social psychology), Addison Wesley, 1969". This is already quite adequate but, if it should still be doubted then one can just uses the authority control to find an entry like this. The entry is quite uncontroversial and so does not require an extraordinary level of referencing. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. Clear ready with exception for the Works section, which has been updated (by me). No further reason to hold up the posting. – robertsky (talk) 01:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Mitzi Gaynor
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:
- Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American actress, singer, and dancer. Article likely needs more citation work. Staraction (talk | contribs) 21:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article is barely cited, some of the CN tags are dated to 2012... that's bad. Scuba 21:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article does need work as the nominator mentioned. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Toshiyuki Nishida
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Japan Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Japanese Actor.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Soft oppose Filmography missing sources, career is lacking prose. Scuba 21:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose unsourced honors and filmography. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
October 16
[edit]
October 16, 2024
(Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
|
(Posted) RD: Sukh Dev
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Gujarat Samachar (India)
Credits:
- Nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit), Aumnamahashiva (talk · give credit), Tachs (talk · give credit) and Pravega (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Indian scientist. Article seems to be alright. Ktin (talk) 01:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. Scuba 02:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems fine to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 12:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Yahya Sinwar
[edit]Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Hamas de facto leader Yahya Sinwar reportedly killed in an Israeli operation. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Yahya Sinwar, the acting leader of Hamas, is killed in an Israeli operation.
Alternative blurb II: Yahya Sinwar, the acting leader of Hamas, is killed in a firefight with Israeli forces in Gaza.
News source(s): Bloomberg
Credits:
- Nominated by mike_gigs (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Confirmed killed by IDF via Bloomberg ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 16:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- If confirmed by RS, I would support this.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support covered by all major sources by now Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 17:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. I think all Wikipedias will add it on the main page. A.WagnerC(alt) (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb. Quality seems okay and RSs have confirmed the death with photos in addition to the Israeli claims. The internal leader of Hamas for nearly a decade, and more recently the overall leader. Killing of major leaders in wars merit posting even though the war might be in ongoing (e.g. Nasrallah's death despite the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict being stickied). ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 17:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support if confirmed by Hamas and RS + a better blurb is used (came here to nominate it, found it already nominated) Abo Yemen✉ 17:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Note His article is in decent shape, but as of this comment it has not been updated to state definitively that he is dead. Support Blurb on updating and confirmation from sources other than Israel. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, but strongly oppose blurb. This is covered by ongoing Israel-Hamas war. We have consistently not blurbed the large scale killing of civilians in Gaza, and we should remain consistent and not suddenly decide to blurb this.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb per VR. Combatant dies in combat in a conflict that we have listed under Ongoing already - despite Sinwar being a notable figure, this isn’t a unique/unusual situation in the way the assassinations of Haniyeh/Nasrallah were (and iirc, Nasrallah was posted before the Israel-Hezbollah conflict was in Ongoing). The Kip (contribs) 18:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, though - article seems sufficiently cited/updated. The Kip (contribs) 18:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Pending further confirmation, Support Blurb as article in decent shape (bit too much proseline but not a blocker) and clearly a major event in the Gaza situation. Side unrelated comment as i see no reason for the separate death article to load up on repeated BG and excessive reactions, but that's beyond the remit of ITN outside of avoiding a blurb that links to it. Masem (t) 18:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I will make this more explicit since alt blurbs use it, I Oppose including the killing article as the featured one. It's typical of the slicing and dicing of news stories to far too much detail for and encyclopedia, with excessive BG and reaction sections, when the actual events are all of four paragraphs. Some of that reaction is likely better in the context of the larger conflict, but making the event standalone, particularly when it was less of an organized plan and more a chance happenstance, it's not a good summary of the news as we should be writing. — Masem (t) 18:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Confirmed now by Israel, headline news now and significant enough in its own right, rising above routine updates in the ongoing Israel–Hamas war. Brandmeistertalk 18:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I've added an altblurb with a link to the article on his death. As nominator, I am pretty indifferent to blurbing since I agree it is covered by ongoing, but he is also a very high ranking individual. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 18:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Added an altblurb. Current wording implies the operation was to find and kill him, but it seems the encounter was happenstance. I'm indifferent about blurbing as well. Bitspectator ⛩️ 18:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Pachu Kannan (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb vs RD - Yes, it's part of a conflict/war that's listed in Ongoing, but when the leader of one of the side in the conflict/war is killed, it's very much significant on its own and on top of the Ongoing. And yes, we very much posted the killing of Hassan Nasrallah. If Russia managed to take out Zelenskyy or Ukraine managed to take out Putin, are people seriously suggesting we wouldn't blurb that? -- KTC (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb per Patar Knight FlipandFlopped ツ 18:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support with blurb maybe we should make a page about his killing and make that the target article. Scuba 19:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb, but wait pending further conformation. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 19:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb—De facto leader of Hamas and the Gaza Strip since 2017, thereby making him a very significant political figure whose death is highly consequential. Kurtis (talk) 19:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Kurtis He's only been the head of Hamas for a few months, since Haniyeh's assassination. The Kip (contribs) 20:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- But he's been in charge of the Gaza Strip since 2017. He's also the presumed mastermind of the October 7th attacks. Sorry, probably should have worded that more carefully. Kurtis (talk) 08:25, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Kurtis He's only been the head of Hamas for a few months, since Haniyeh's assassination. The Kip (contribs) 20:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD and neutral on blurb since he was a serving head of government making him one of the few that should qualify in theory for RDB IMO This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 20:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hamas in no way is a government body. Masem (t) 20:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hamas was, at least, the de facto authority in the Gaza Strip prior to the beginning of the war. We would certainly post if the Prime Minister of Kosovo was assassinated. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 21:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hamas in no way is a government body. Masem (t) 20:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb. Sure, the conflict is in ongoing, but Sinwar was one of the principal leaders—arguably, the foremost leader—of one of the conflict's main belligerents. This is a notable enough update in the conflict to merit a blurb. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb II. Primary leader of one of the war’s two main belligerents dying is pretty significant. Altblurb II makes it clear he wasn’t assassinated, while other blurbs could lead readers to believe he was like Haniyeh or Nasrallah. Jone425 (talk) 21:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb as confirmed by WP:RS. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 23:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted altblurb II. I've made some changes to the links, expanding the boldlink to cover "killed in a firefight" and linking "Israeli forces in Gaza" to Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. ITN admins, feel free to copyedit for consistency. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Matia Chowdhury
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New AgeDhaka Tribune
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
- Updated by GreenRedFlag (talk · give credit), CosmLearner (talk · give credit) and Kelisi (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bangladesh Politician.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready While the article all the necessary details, but, they need to be written in a more neutral manner. Example:
Matia's boldness, leadership, and courage shine through her frontline participation (...) Her fiery speeches and unwavering attitude (...)
ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Tina Kaidanow
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Koha
Credits:
- Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, everything looks sourced. Suonii180 (talk) 22:44, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Article is a bit short but there is a sufficient amount of good references. Vida0007 (talk) 12:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Adequately sourced, ready for RD. FlipandFlopped ツ 18:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support per above. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a source for the DoB shown in the intro and the infobox, please? The footnote should be in the main prose. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 10:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- The year is sourced. I didn't hold this as any more significant than any other Cn, though I know some posters do. —Bagumba (talk) 10:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- I got the unreferenced date hidden for now. --PFHLai (talk) 12:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- The year is sourced. I didn't hold this as any more significant than any other Cn, though I know some posters do. —Bagumba (talk) 10:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 10:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed, RD posted): Liam Payne
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: English singer Liam Payne (pictured) dies at the age of 31 (Post)
Alternative blurb: English singer Liam Payne (pictured), previously of One Direction, dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires.
Alternative blurb II: English singer Liam Payne (pictured) dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires.
News source(s): CNN, ABC News, CTV News
Credits:
- Nominated by RachelTensions (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Strong support blurb Alrighty, here we got a relatively young sudden death from an unusual circumstance (fall of the balcony due to possible intoxication see enwiki article). 1D was definitely an influential band during the 2010s and being a member of said and the circumstances of his death does merit a blurb.
In terms of article, there's 2-3 cn tags and the filmography/awards section needs some ref work first.--TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC) - Support blurb Definitely notable, on pretty much every big news site in the world already. Article needs some work with refs but other than that looks fine. harrz talk 22:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you supporting RD or a blurb? If you are supporting RD, note that anyone with an article is considered notable, and the focus is on article quality.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post
. Natg 19 (talk) 22:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)- I'm supporting a blurb - sorry, I misunderstood the nomination. harrz talk 22:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you supporting RD or a blurb? If you are supporting RD, note that anyone with an article is considered notable, and the focus is on article quality.
- Support blurb If it was a typical death of natural causes which was not unexpected, probably not notable enough within his field to get a blurb. However, in this case the highly unusual nature of death + the "shock" of death at a young age, generate excess levels of news coverage and push it across. FlipandFlopped ツ 22:33, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
Oppose until sourcing issues are fixed. I've added refs for the two cn tags but the filmography and Awards and nominations sections still need more refs.Suonii180 (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)- Forgot to specify that I would support both RD and blurb once sources have been added. Suonii180 (talk) 22:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Suonii180:
Fixed filmography section. There's three left for awards section that I'm working on.Everything's sourced now. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Suonii180:
- Support now that sourcing is fixed. Suonii180 (talk) 23:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Forgot to specify that I would support both RD and blurb once sources have been added. Suonii180 (talk) 22:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Not notable enough to get a blurb. --CommanderShepardX (talk) 23:13, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @CommanderShepardX: The argument for a blurb in this case isn't if Payne was 'notable enough' it's more about the uncommon circumstances surrounding his death and the fact he was relatively young. See argument below. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb Per Flipandflopped. OctaviusSlockpit (talk) 23:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb - Going to go against the grain here. Once the article issues are addressed the article should definitely go on RD, but as big as One Direction was, I'm skeptical that a blurb is warranted. Usually we'd reserve it for the biggest of the big, and while One Direction was big in their day I'm not sure if he'd count in this case. I don't want to go OSE here and all but many other arguably more deserving people only got an RD mention and not a blurb, so him getting a blurb would seem unfair, even arguably Anglocentric. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:27, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: To be fair, the argument for a blurb in this case is mainly directed towards the manner of his death which is unusual especially for someone at the age of 31 not about how influential he was or for being a 1D member. When someone old dies and gets nominated for a blurb, there's the 'old person dies, what's new' argument. Now that we have a younger, relatively popular singer who dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony...I think that's the blurb of the story. Also: "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." Also the article's in good shape now in terms of quality. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb — Not a significant figure. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:27, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
As we all know, no one but Trump is significant to you...LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 23:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)- I'm not sure what this insinuation is supposed to mean. I have opposed virtually every ITN nomination about Trump since he was indicted in New York. If Trump were to die, I would support a blurb, as I would for any current or former head of state. That is the standard. Payne, who I had not heard of until I received news of his death, was not transformative to the field of music. If ITN wants to reflect a global audience, it needs to be selective about who appears. His death is undoubtably tragic, but it would take a truly notable person for me to seek a blurb. In addition, I do not voice my support for a blurb unless I believe that the discussion is leaning against one, which has not happened in quite some time. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- @LilianaUwU Knock it off. See my note on your talk page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- See my argument above. The discussions for a blurb in this case isn't about how 'significant' he was it's more about the manner of death. "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Nobody is saying he is a significant figure. It is the circumstances of death that are newsworthy. With respect, it is not really helpful to just say "oppose because I don't think Liam Payne is an impactful artist". Whether he is an impactful figure or not is a bit of a red herring, because his nomination is about the death. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb - "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." I would say is applicable here. Thechased (talk) 23:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb per Flipandflopped. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 23:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb The manner of unusual death is notable enough to be blurbworthy. I added an altblurb specifying his former band and his manner of death, as that is bringing this major attention. DrewieStewie (talk) 23:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Blurbable Often enough, in music history, death makes legends. Not just out of the personally tragic main character, either. The background, the aftermath and everything. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb and Alt Blurb This is both supported and notable, shockingly and sad news as a fan of one direction. Royiswariii | D-GENERATION X | u can talk me :) 00:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb No indication of how they were a great/major figure (fame from being in 1D doesn't count), and while the death was unusual, initial reports do not show signs of this being an attack, only perhaps an incident while being intoxicated. --Masem (t) 00:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Intoxication plays a huge part in most of the most VH1ed rock or rock-adjacent tales of woe. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Which would make this not an "unusual" death, in that regard. To contrast, while Prince died from drug overdose (also common in musician deaths), we posted him more on the basis of him being a great figure, not the death itself. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I never considered Prince great. Michael Hutchence, neither. Nor Robert Johnson. The devil's in the details. In Prince's case, the devil was fentanyl, bloody fentanyl (a pandemic many considered "hot" at the time, like oxy in the oxy days, crack in the crack days or hooch in the hooch days). InedibleHulk (talk) 00:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Which would make this not an "unusual" death, in that regard. To contrast, while Prince died from drug overdose (also common in musician deaths), we posted him more on the basis of him being a great figure, not the death itself. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Dying by falling off a hotel balcony at a young age is uncommon especially when it happens to someone of his background. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Dying unintentionally from various reasons while intoxicated is very common among young adults. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, but how many wasted young adults were global megastars first? Quite a few. Still not a routine occurrence. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Payne was not a common young adult to be fair. Per InedibleHulk. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, per you, the balcony aspect even sets him apart from the usual hotel figures. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- "not routine" is not the same as "uncommon". Many people in the entertainment industry that have achieved success at a young age make poor choices, such as DUI, becoming addicted, etc., and in a few of those cases, has resulted in their deaths. It's tragic that we lose that talent, but it happens with enough regularity that's its not uncommon, just not "routine" in that we can expect one every X days (as we've called mass shootings in the US) "Unusual" in the past typically refers to things like assassinations and murder, and even then we typically expect the victim to have been a rather significant figure. Masem (t) 01:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Way more rather significant figures are murdered than fall off balconies. I had no idea who Sophie was either, but yeah, good cautionary tale about trying to photograph the moon while sober. Not exactly famous, though, especially in VH1 circles. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Payne was not a common young adult to be fair. Per InedibleHulk. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, but how many wasted young adults were global megastars first? Quite a few. Still not a routine occurrence. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Dying unintentionally from various reasons while intoxicated is very common among young adults. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Intoxication plays a huge part in most of the most VH1ed rock or rock-adjacent tales of woe. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb Per the other supports. Centuries123 (talk) 01:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb: Sophie died in a very similar circumstance and not a single person suggested blurbing her death. It's clear that people are only blurbing because he was a member of One Direction (and no offense but he was one of the less popular members with a not-so-prolific career post-breakup). And being a member of One Direction is not an indication for being blurbed in my opinion. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 01:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think there might be a slight difference between someone who never even had a #1 versus a member of one of the worlds biggest boybands. 2A01:4B00:AD37:D300:ED97:E32E:2A7B:1E12 (talk) 19:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb, support RD. Payne is a celebrity, but not notable enough to merit a blurb in ITN. He was a single member of a band, not a stand-alone. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 01:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose Blub Not a notable figure. Not a notable death. Cause of death certainly not enough to override the first two. Suggestion of a blurb is a newsworthiness-blind act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN. The Daily Mail exists for this; not ITN. Dr Fell (talk) 02:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- "It is an act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN to post something that is in the news, because I personally this death is perfectly ordinary despite every major news organization in the world reporting it"... uh huh, ok. Please refrain from ridiculous or farfetched accusations of vandalism and stick to WP:AFG. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- The figure in question is not noteworthy enough for an ITN blurb. Death by misadventure does not change that. Presumed public "shock" does not change that. Coverage by celebrity gossip sites does not change that. ITN is not TMZ. Dr Fell (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- "It is an act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN to post something that is in the news, because I personally this death is perfectly ordinary despite every major news organization in the world reporting it"... uh huh, ok. Please refrain from ridiculous or farfetched accusations of vandalism and stick to WP:AFG. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, neutral on blurb. Definitely going to support RD – he is a well-known figure after all, and his article looks ready to be posted. As for the blurb though, I am still conflicted: I agree with the talking point that was raised by Thechased, but I also agree that outside One Direction, his solo career is not notable enough to be posted. Vida0007 (talk) 02:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb Per Bait30, they put it quite well. Ornithoptera (talk) 02:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose blurb, support RD. In no way notable or important to the extent needed for blurbing. Nixinova T C 02:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We're blurbing the death (uncommon manner of death/young age) rather than the "importance" of Payne. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We didn't blurb George Baldock though. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We're blurbing the death (uncommon manner of death/young age) rather than the "importance" of Payne. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb He was an extremely popular singer and he died in a very unusual way which I think deserves to be post on the main page. LiamKorda 03:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong oppose blurb not a serving head of state or government This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Being a head of state or government has no bearing on whether an RD qualifies for a blurb. RachelTensions (talk) 06:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It is one of the very few cases in which the death as an event has a notable enough impact to potentially qualify for a blurb. Were it up to me it would be the only one. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- This kind of reasoning is why many people are getting angry at ITN and our process. AusLondonder (talk) 09:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It is one of the very few cases in which the death as an event has a notable enough impact to potentially qualify for a blurb. Were it up to me it would be the only one. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Being a head of state or government has no bearing on whether an RD qualifies for a blurb. RachelTensions (talk) 06:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Blurb. With all due respect to Payne, I think Harry Styles is the only member of One Direction that would even come close to meeting the requirements we generally have for blurbing. One Direction, while a big thing for a time, was really fairly fleeting in popularity in all reality, and Payne didn't really have the sort of solo career that would make him alone noteworthy enough for a blurb, tragic death or not. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb. Bedivere (talk) 03:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support very famous and influential person. 27.96.223.193 (talk) 04:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb Very well known singer dying young and unexpectedly. –DMartin 04:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, wait on blurb. Wait until we find out the specific nature of the death. All we know right now is that he fell, which isn’t particularly unusual. If it wasn’t either suicide or accident, then a blurb would be warranted. Jone425 (talk) 05:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb WP:ITNRDBLURB: "For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident) or where the events surrounding the death merit additional explanation (such as ongoing investigations, major stories about memorial services or international reactions, etc.) a blurb may be merited to explain the death's relevance." He was a member of what was one of the best-selling bands of all time, the fact that he died so early and unexpectedly is shocking, and per The Independent, his death is currently being investigated. Rest in peace Jaguarnik (talk) 05:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb he was well known but wasn't at all the most notable of his band (Styles has a much more successful solo career. We didn't post the murder of XXXTentacion, a 20 year old who topped Billboard albums three months earlier - an event covered in books and documentaries for six years since. How is an accident/suicide more unusual than that? Unknown Temptation (talk) 06:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- The two are not comparable, XXXTentacion was an artist that was barely notable at the time of his death; Payne was a member of the biggest boyband since The Beatles. RachelTensions (talk) 06:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Also not to compare, but I think musical artists being victims of a homicide is a bit more frequent than them falling off balconies of hotels while *possibly* being intoxicated. As I mentioned w/ James Earl Jones's discussion, I'm not a fan of "I oppose John Doe's blurb because Jane Doe didn't get one" as I find it a bit unproductive IMO and without merit. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Biggest boyband since the Beatles? That is a wild statement: New Kids on the Block, Take That, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, Boyzone, Five, A1, O-Zone, Westlife, BTS? Abcmaxx (talk) 07:45, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's also how XXXTentacion was a Florida man murdered in Florida (Broward County all the way) and Payne was an Englishman felled(?) abroad. Bit of that "international intrigue". Who's investigating the investigators and so forth. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'd like to see the working-out for the assertion that homicide kills musicians more frequently than [possible] intoxication. How many of the fabled 27 club were murdered? How many of 60s/70s classic rock? Even among US rappers, we have Mac Miller, Lil Peep and Juice Wrld dying of drugs in recent memory. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It seems the
falling off balconies of hotels
part wasn't asserted enough. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It seems the
- I'd like to see the working-out for the assertion that homicide kills musicians more frequently than [possible] intoxication. How many of the fabled 27 club were murdered? How many of 60s/70s classic rock? Even among US rappers, we have Mac Miller, Lil Peep and Juice Wrld dying of drugs in recent memory. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- The two are not comparable, XXXTentacion was an artist that was barely notable at the time of his death; Payne was a member of the biggest boyband since The Beatles. RachelTensions (talk) 06:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong oppose blurb A creation of TV's and Cowell's ruthless industry, may have been popular among the boyband's teenage fanbase but was not relevant for years nor was One Direction in any way transformative, if anything it was just another artificially created copy-paste boyband. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD and leaning support on blurb. Article is well written and sourced. As per ITNRDBLURB, I think the manner of death fits the criteria we have given he was a part of a fairly well known and influential band (I understand, never listened to any of their music but there seems to be a big worldwide fanbase) so I think this one just creeps over the line for blurbing. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb The readership spike is big – bigger than Maggie Smith and over 10 times Alex Salmond. So, this is quite outstanding as these things go and the article seems adequate. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think this more of a sad indictment of modern interests. If a popular contestant on Love Island were to sadly befall the same fate would we blurb that? We didn't blurb George Baldock, a former Premier League footballer, that had a huge spike in readership after his tragic death. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- George Baldock's spike was about half a million which is not in the same league. This guy was about five times larger at about two and a half million. My rule of thumb is that getting over a million is the blurb level of fame and impact. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Checking on day #2, we find that the readership has climbed to new heights of over 3.5 million while other related topics dominate the top 10, with over 10 million aggregate views in a single day. Yahya Sinwar is an also-ran in this company while his killing article gets comparatively little attention. ITN, of course, indulges a personal preference for politics rather than pop culture but our readers don't care and vote with their views. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- George Baldock's spike was about half a million which is not in the same league. This guy was about five times larger at about two and a half million. My rule of thumb is that getting over a million is the blurb level of fame and impact. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think this more of a sad indictment of modern interests. If a popular contestant on Love Island were to sadly befall the same fate would we blurb that? We didn't blurb George Baldock, a former Premier League footballer, that had a huge spike in readership after his tragic death. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb widely known. probably many more people have heard about his death than the number of people who've ever heard about a random tiny pacific micronation let alone its elections that regularly get posted here Kasperquickly (talk) 07:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's actually filmed in Majorca. But tend to agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- How small does a nation have to be to be insignificant in your opinion? Elections are ITN/R for a good reason. If it suffers a natural disaster is that less significant than a mediocre musician tragically dying? Abcmaxx (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I am not talking natural disasters. And the reasoning for elections are sloppy. Elections in the USA are important. Elections in Japan are important. Elections in Nigeria are possibly important. Elections in the central african republic are NOT Kasperquickly (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Why would elections in Nigeria be more important than in the Central African Republic? Where are you drawing this arbitrary line? What about all the countries in between the two? Also going back to topic, if only fame and what people recognise was an indication of what to post then we might as well only post celebrity gossip and top-level footballers, such the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, Kardashians latest product launches and forget about space exploration or gang wars in Haiti, which by your logic is too small and far away a country by your standards. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- it's not about being far away, it's the geopolitical improtance, you're either feigning ignorance or your actual ignorant if you think elections in CAR or Micronesia are just as important like those in Germany or Indonesia.
- /thread. Kasperquickly (talk) 11:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We consider general elections in all sovereign states to be notable see WP:ITNR (along with other general topics). Personal opinions of editors on the level of importance assigned to any of these is not relvant and a change if felt should be sought at ITNR (though consensus is unlikely to change). About the usage of phrases like "/thread", please realize that Wikipedia is WP:NOTAFORUM (edit: I realize you have been warned against making forum comment several times already, a block has also followed for personal attacks (including usages of kek, r-word); a continuation of this is not going to bode well for you). Also familiarize yourself with the relevant ITN and ITNR policies, we do not post based on "geopolitcal" considerations, never have. Though this is now going off-topic from a RD-blurb about a musician. Gotitbro (talk) 11:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- yep, kek is a known nazi word only nazis use (wikipedia says so, must be true), and retarded is a word only sexists and racists use (wikipedia says so, must be true).
- seriously man, touch grass. Kasperquickly (talk) 19:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Why would elections in Nigeria be more important than in the Central African Republic? Where are you drawing this arbitrary line? What about all the countries in between the two? Also going back to topic, if only fame and what people recognise was an indication of what to post then we might as well only post celebrity gossip and top-level footballers, such the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, Kardashians latest product launches and forget about space exploration or gang wars in Haiti, which by your logic is too small and far away a country by your standards. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I am not talking natural disasters. And the reasoning for elections are sloppy. Elections in the USA are important. Elections in Japan are important. Elections in Nigeria are possibly important. Elections in the central african republic are NOT Kasperquickly (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb, this is how I find out that he died. His solo career was still quite big when not compared to Harry Styles for example Strip That Down reached number 3 in the UK and number 10 in the US and so arguably had a more successful music career than Louis Tomlinson. Sahaib (talk) 07:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb He was a member of a popular band, not a musician with a successful solo career. And One Direction most definitely do not have the massive impact of The Beatles, The Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd so that we consider a blurb for the death of an individual band member.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose blurb The circumstances of the death are dramatic and tragic, but purely in terms of his importance, he was one of six members of a famous, but not music history-changing band, as Kiril above me points out. A lot of fans, but probably even more people who roughly remember One Direction and that some guys sang together. With Harry Styles my answer would be yes, but this way I tend to be against it. --Clibenfoart (talk) 08:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Correction there was five members (four when Zayn left). Sahaib (talk) 08:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- As stated above, the main argument about this blurb is more revolving around the circumstances of his death (fall from balcony, young age, possible circumstances surrounding the fall, etc.) Had he died in a more common way like a car accident or as Rambling Man mentioned, something relating to drugs or even homicide, then yes this would be a clear case for RD with a strong opposition against blurbing. However, falling off a hotel balcony while being *possibly* intoxicated at the young age of 31, well, that's not that common hence the blurb nom. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- So why didn't we blurb Jackmaster, Sophie, George Baldock, or XXXTentacion by that reasoning? Abcmaxx (talk) 09:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb He was a member of popular band no doubt, but that's all. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 08:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb the unusual circumstances make this blurbable. 2A02:8071:6362:54A0:14D1:B266:31D4:FD5D (talk) 09:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb : no sense giving the impression that en.wp rewards rich white people with blurbs because they fell off wagons and balconies while trashing other people's property. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 09:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Is that a serious comment? Maybe ITN is broken... AusLondonder (talk) 10:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- In the interests of civility, I would advise you strike this comment. While the voting criteria at ITN isn't strictly policy based, this isn't a gossip forum either. Gotitbro (talk) 11:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Was that Wild West wagons or water wagons?? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posting RD, the article is fine. It does not seem a consensus for a blurb will develop here. --Tone 09:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb - not a Michael Jackson or Prince level artist. Sheila1988 (talk) 09:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb It's in the news on a global basis, we do a disservice to our readers to pretend otherwise simply because he was a pop culture figure. Per WP:ITNRDBLURB: "For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident)...a blurb may be merited." I think it's merited, his death was cleary unexpected and unusual. AusLondonder (talk) 09:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure he'll make it into List of unusual deaths. So unconvinced over blurb. I guess Kurt would have got one. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Been a while since I have been at this forum, but voting seeing the split vote. Initially I too was opposed to a blurb posting, but considering the unusual death this should make it a good candidate for a death blurb (unlike the usual ones we post of notable figures in old age of natural causes). The band's popularity is well known and Payne is inextricably linked to it (I do not this is a case of imputation). Gotitbro (talk) 11:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb As much as those who are in support of the blurb claim that they think this person should blurbed because of the manner of his death, it's not really believable that this is the full story. The full story is that he is a somewhat well-known and rich white person from an English-speaking country. To the best of my knowledge blurbs were not even discussed for Sophie, Jackmaster, George Baldock or XXXTentacion. This is exactly the type of death that Recent Deaths was created for. Chrisclear (talk) 11:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please don't claim to read other editor's minds and then ascribe false narratives to them. That's clearly uncivil. AusLondonder (talk) 12:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- These examples are indeed unusual deaths but from what I can tell the notability is limited individually or through any musical group. Payne is a prominent member of globally one of the best known bands in recent times, which Britannica surmises as such: "One Direction, British-Irish male vocal group whose stylish good looks and bright pop-rock sound captivated young fans around the world in the early 2010s."
- While the band has not been recently active, the question arises would we not blurb a tragic death (god forbid) of a prominent member of a band such as the BTS? Gotitbro (talk) 13:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- All deaths can be argued as tragic, even those from natural causes. The mertic we consider is whether the death is unusual, and while there aren't that many deaths from falling off balconies, deaths resulting from misfortune while intoxicated (as implied by reports) are not. Masem (t) 13:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, what I meant was unusual. Foul play or major accidents should not be the only criteria therein. I think suicide is suspected as well here, does that make more notable as a death or is a mysterious falling off more in line with the RD interpretation. Gotitbro (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- XXXTentaction was way more influencial in terms of his music style, which cannot be said for Liam Payne who despite his huge albeit brief popularity, his influence on any genre of music was neglible. XXXTentaction also has a whole article about the manner of his death, so I cannot see how this tragic accident is more notable than that at all. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, what I meant was unusual. Foul play or major accidents should not be the only criteria therein. I think suicide is suspected as well here, does that make more notable as a death or is a mysterious falling off more in line with the RD interpretation. Gotitbro (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- All deaths can be argued as tragic, even those from natural causes. The mertic we consider is whether the death is unusual, and while there aren't that many deaths from falling off balconies, deaths resulting from misfortune while intoxicated (as implied by reports) are not. Masem (t) 13:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, Oppose Blurb His popularity, and the popularity of the boyband he was in, dropped heavily after the 2010's. It was a flash in the pan of popularity whose only staying power was nostalgia. Scuba 13:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb per Kiril Simeonovski, SashiRolls and Chrisclear. Also support LilianaUwU. Assessment of AusLondonder remains unchanged. Cheers, SerialNumber54129 13:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Serial Number 54129: Huh? AusLondonder (talk) 14:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support me? Why? LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 18:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb per most above. Far from transformative in their field, nor are they particularly distinguished within even their group. I'd argue popularity of the deceased doesn't necessarily necessitate a blurb unless under suspicious circumstances, and to me it's clear what happens is no deeper than a few sentences long. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Also, a quick question, what does it exactly mean for a death itself to be notable? Any respected figure dying of any means could have an argument of "tragic and unexpected death", such as a heart attack, cancer, stroke, or heart disease, when those are some of the most common forms of death. This clause should really only be used if there's reason to suspect their death was actually unusual and would be notable on its own, for instance Alexei Navalny's death in a Russian prison as an opposition leader, as opposed to a simple case of someone dying the way most people die. From what I gather, the means of death here wasn't plausibly caused by a third party and beyond the perceived tragedy there wasn't much to Payne's death than that. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb The comet blurb is very stale already, so might aswell blurb this one. 51.154.145.205 (talk) 16:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Supporting blurb The comet passage we currently have in ITN is very stale, apparently dating back to September. This is a major news topic and unusual death. Freshen up the feed. RachelTensions (talk) 17:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb While 1D were big, they weren't earth-shatteringly so, and he was not the most famous/notable member of it regardless. The Kip (contribs) 19:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb—One Direction were huge in the 2010s, and Liam Payne's death was extremely sudden and tragic. It's easy for those who didn't grow up in the 2010s (i.e. people like me) to say that 1D isn't iconic like Queen or Nirvana, but the fact is that they were iconic to many legions of fans during their existence, and the band leaves behind a major legacy of its own. Kurtis (talk) 19:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb, very notable individual and huge news story. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 00:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb The only way this would get a blurb is under "death as the story" and, besides being tragically young, this doesn't meet that. Deaths that meet such a "news in itself" threshold would be more the likes of Michael Mosley, where the manner of death is particularly unusual and where there is news coverage of the manner of death itself (and not just because the person was whatever level of famous) - which IIRC we didn't post anyway. Kingsif (talk) 01:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Admin comment At this point, it's a dead heat, both by strength of argument and numerically. Unless this changes, this won't get blurbed. Schwede66 02:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- That very much depends what you're counting. The number of !votes here is about 55. Meanwhile, the number of readership views of this and related topics is currently running at about 10 million per day. It's clearly the dominant topic. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- At this point, I would support disposing of ITN altogether. When someone dies of old age, the discussion is full of "manner of death not notable" oppose votes. When someone dies an unnatural death at a young age, suddenly the manner of death doesn't matter anymore... Unless the only "notable" cause of death is murder. Not to mention how discussions which are undecided after 2 days get closed regularly (IMO the only reasons to close an ITN discussion should be an AfD nomination or the OP withdrawing. They get archived after a week anyway, it's not like they would go on forever.). TVShowFan122 (talk) 18:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- @TVShowFan122: there is a discussion at WP:VPP about amendments or changes to ITN: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RfC: In the news criteria amendments. Natg 19 (talk) 20:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- TVShowFan122, I don't know if you've got your wires crossed, but the 'contrast' of the two situations you describe actually sounds like the same argument being applied in both age-range cases. If a person is not massive enough for a blurb just because it's them, and their death is not remarkable enough it would be news even if it wasn't them, then RDs are not elevated from RD to a blurb. Why would we scrap ITN because of... remarkable consistency in the RD line... Kingsif (talk) 23:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) 2024 SCO summit (heads of government)
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: The two-day summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization Council of Heads concluded in Islamabad, Pakistan. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, VOA, Al Jazeera, DW, AP
Credits:
- Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
Article needs updating
- Oppose Seems like some run-of-the-mill summit to me. Nothing really noteworthy coming out of it nor that much mainstream coverage. Plus of course, the citations are missing publishers and accessdates. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:19, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support it is far from a "run-of-the-mill" summit. That's just living in denial of a static geopolitical world order, particularly with 2024. Of course, that depends on the quality of the ARTICLE/UPDATE. Plenty has gone up without the referencing excuse.Sportsnut24 (talk) 07:23, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability, oppose on quality for now The summit has received sufficient mainstream coverage for ITN. However, the article currently does not have much detail about the summit. Notably, a list of the summit's results is missing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:29, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Routine summit that hasn't made any major announcement and there's no indication of long-term impact. We wouldn't post summits of equivalent regional bodies (African Union, ASEAN etc.). Besides, the article is terrible, just two sentences of prose and some uninformative bullet points. It would be embarrassing to post that in ITN. Modest Genius talk
- Oppose We generally do not post these types of summits (even stuff like the G7 or G20), unless significant reform measures are signed for individual country ratification. --Masem (t) 11:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose As not seeing evidence of any noteworthy developments at the summit. If someone can demonstrate that is not correct I'd happily reconsider. I'd personally support posting more regional summits as long as something of relevance takes place. The article is obviously not fit for ITN, either. Also we shouldn't post a redirect, the article is at Shanghai Cooperation Organisation. AusLondonder (talk) 12:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above arguments. Scuba 12:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Google searching "2024 SCO Summit" and then NYT, BBC, CBC, Le Monde, Moscow Times, yields no articles. On the other hand, I found a single WAPO article, and it is being more closely followed by Asian media outlets such as the Times of India or the Chinese government-owned newspaper Global Times. Even those articles, though, only really detail that the event happened and make vague, generally non-notable reports ("commitment to cooperation", "new efforts to combat climate change", trade partnerships, etc). On the whole, this is simply not global front page news at the level required by ITN. FlipandFlopped ツ 18:16, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Business as usual, just with more dictators (proportionally) and less information. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:49, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. The Kip (contribs) 18:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
October 15
[edit]
October 15, 2024
(Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Business and economy
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Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
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(Posted) RD: Garbis Aprikian
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTL (France)
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Born in Egypt as an Armenian, he moved to Paris for studies and remained there, conducting an Armenian mixed choir for around 50 years and bringing Armenian music to France. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Robert Fulford (journalist)
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC.ca
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Wellington Bay (talk · give credit) and Connormah (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Canadian journalist. Article seems to almost be there. Ktin (talk) 01:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- This looks promising; only two citation needed tags. Flibirigit (talk) 11:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ready. All information cited. No other concerns noted. Flibirigit (talk) 13:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems good enough to me now. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Mike Jackson
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times
Credits:
- Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article is a FA. Updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Featured article, influential person. -insert valid name here- (talk) 01:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Well written article and well cited. He deserves credit and recognition for backing Captain James Blunt refusing to follow the American order at Pristina airport, which averted the Third World War. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 11:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Atul Parchure
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times Now Times of India Hindustan Times
Credits:
- Nominated by TNM101 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Filmyworldwiki (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Well known Marathi and Hindi film and television actor, death has been acknowledged throughout the industry. Has a verifiability tag but should be resolved soon. TNM101 (chat) 13:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- We don’t post stubs. Schwede66 12:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Stub. Scuba 12:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article is a stub. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: George Negus
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1], [2]
Credits:
- Nominated by Happily888 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Totallynotarandomalt69 (talk · give credit), ClaudineChionh (talk · give credit), Flipandflopped (talk · give credit) and Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Happily888 (talk) 04:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
Comment, not yet, sourcing could be improved.ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 05:07, 15 October 2024 (UTC)- Support, good collective effort to improve it. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 13:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, nationally iconic but also internationally relevant. Article is in good enough shape in my opinion. Daniel (talk) 13:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Soft support only seeing 3 CN tags, which I feel is near the acceptable limit, but still below it. Scuba 12:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support I have updated the article to address the remaining CN tags. Should be ready now IMHO! FlipandFlopped ツ 02:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems good to go. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Death date Is there a source that confirms the exact date he died? Family statement are not necessarily issued ASAP the same day. I dont have access to the subscription-only citation.—Bagumba (talk) 04:27, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Bagumba: I checked all the accessible sources again (some of them have been updated) but none of them confirm a date of death! If we can't confirm the date does that make it ineligible for RD? @Jkaharper: do you have full access to The Australian? — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 04:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- The death is verified, it's just that we shouldn't use an exact unverified date. "Circa" or something similar would be more accurate, not sure other MOS options ("reported"?) A case where the actual death turned out to be months earlier comes to mind (exact name escapes me). Some families need privacy until the right time. —Bagumba (talk) 04:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- I was thinking of Fritz Peterson (nom). Announced death in April 2024, with no specific date mentioned, but sources eventually came out that he died in October 2023. Sequence mentioned on his page. —Bagumba (talk) 06:14, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba: see Jkaharper's edit summary 1251498836|here. Happily888 (talk) 06:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Happily888: Interesting, if I go to that url, and I don't have a subscription, the free preview shows
The pioneering journalist, one of the three original members of 60 Minutes and the inaugural host of ABC’s Foreign Correspondent, has died at the age of 82
, with no mention of "Tuesday". Have they since updated their page to remove the exact day? Or is that preview different from what's actually in the paywalled article? Do we trust the exact date if this is the only site mentioning it (WP:RSBREAKING)? Could they just have mistakenely assumed it was the same date as the family statement? I'd recommend just using {{circa}} for now, unless there's more clarity. —Bagumba (talk) 07:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)- Bagumba: I'm inclined to go with "circa". — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 12:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba and ClaudineChionh: Yes, usually the previews on these sites differ from the article content. If you open the URL from a mobile browser view you should be able to scroll down and read the full first paragraph which hasn't been changed, which includes the Tuesday date information. Additionally, the family statement suggests that the death date was the same date as announcement, with media reports such as 10 News First The Project Mediaweek on Tuesday stating that Negus died "today" and the family statement starts with
Today, our incredible father and partner George passed away
according to ABC News Variety Daily Telegraph, showing that that URL is correct. Happily888 (talk) 14:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)- Ok, I'm less concerned with those sources, esp. if the family wrote "today". —Bagumba (talk) 16:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Happily888: Interesting, if I go to that url, and I don't have a subscription, the free preview shows
- The death is verified, it's just that we shouldn't use an exact unverified date. "Circa" or something similar would be more accurate, not sure other MOS options ("reported"?) A case where the actual death turned out to be months earlier comes to mind (exact name escapes me). Some families need privacy until the right time. —Bagumba (talk) 04:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Bagumba: I checked all the accessible sources again (some of them have been updated) but none of them confirm a date of death! If we can't confirm the date does that make it ineligible for RD? @Jkaharper: do you have full access to The Australian? — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 04:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Post Date seems resolved.—Bagumba (talk) 05:01, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba May I get "ITN credit" too? (I'm not obsessively chasing bling, I promise!) ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 22:53, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
October 14
[edit]
October 14, 2024
(Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
Science and technology
|
(Posted) RD: Barbara Owen (organist)
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Organ Historical Society
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American organist, who also was into organ building, voicing and consulting, and a musicologist who headed the Boston chapter of the AGO and its organ library at the Boston University. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Photo RD (or Usual) Story checks out. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:28, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:11, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Janet Nelson
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Royal Historical Society
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Martinevans123 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Serial Number 54129 (talk · give credit) and Flipandflopped (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
British medieval historian. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:04, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support She was 82 and born March 28 (that's a palindrome). It's now '24 and that was '42 (that's another palindrome). Article looks well-cited (that's what's significant). InedibleHulk (talk) 20:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Question, Though In British historiography, is it proper for an infobox to say a woman dissolved her spouse in 2010 or divorced him? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:21, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please see Talk:Janet Nelson#Marital status, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- You're welcome. Also (quite insignificantly), I didn't mean to imply Wilson was her dad's surname earlier. There's a tradition in this ex-dominion wherein we introduce couples as "Blank and Blankette Exampleson" (skipping the redundancy) and I thought we got it from "you guys", but I guess not, whatever and fine. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:41, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm sure we both have all sorts of traditions about names. And then there's... WP:MOS... Martinevans123 (talk) 21:30, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- You're welcome. Also (quite insignificantly), I didn't mean to imply Wilson was her dad's surname earlier. There's a tradition in this ex-dominion wherein we introduce couples as "Blank and Blankette Exampleson" (skipping the redundancy) and I thought we got it from "you guys", but I guess not, whatever and fine. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:41, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please see Talk:Janet Nelson#Marital status, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support three of the books in the works section were not cited, so I updated the article to include that. Should be good to go. FlipandFlopped ツ 03:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Soft support some of the books are missing ISBN codes, but the article looks fine. Scuba 21:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Feel free to add. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:41, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ready for 36 hours now. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is indeed ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Generally expect most of Janet Nelson § Works to have ISBN, ISSN, etc.—Bagumba (talk) 04:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Even though the 7 remaining books all have either an external link to Google Books or a linked article? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Now added anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:58, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Even though the 7 remaining books all have either an external link to Google Books or a linked article? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 10:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Nadeem al-Wajidi
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Millat Times Baseerat Online Amar Ujala The Inquilab
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Khaatir (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Indian Islamic scholar. Khaatir (talk) 14:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support however I believe the list of the books should be trimmed but that's more of a cleanup thing. Regards, Aafi (talk) 05:41, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Aafi Following this, 12 books have been retained out of the original 20, and these 12 are also selected from a list of approximately 50 books. Regards, Khaatir (talk) 02:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Everything looks good besides the lack of ISBN for his books. Scuba 12:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article is good enough to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 09:56, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Europa Clipper launches
[edit]Blurb: The Europa Clipper probe is launched (pictured) by NASA on a 6-year journey to the Jovian moon Europa. (Post)
Alternative blurb: The Europa Clipper spacecraft is launched (pictured) to investigate Europa, an icy moon of Jupiter
News source(s): CNN, Sky, Space.com
Credits:
- Nominated by Jone425 (talk · give credit)
Major interplanetary probe launch, and significant coverage from non-science focused sources. Seems to be getting a similar level of attention to Polaris Dawn, if not more. First orbital probe dedicated to exploring a single non-Earth moon. Jone425 (talk) 22:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment This also should probably mention JUICE too. That said this was also an unremarkable launch (existing rocket, no hitches) and the probes won't get TO Jupiter until 2030, so maybe this isn't this time to post? Not sure. Masem (t) 22:35, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- JUICE launched last year, so I'm not entirely sure why it'd be mentioned here. As for waiting, that could be a good idea but this seems to be a fairly significant launch and lines up with previous ITN launch posts (JUICE being one of them). Jone425 (talk) 22:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I misread that these were launched at the same time, they're sorta joint missions to explore Jupiter and its all moons.
And while we do normally wait for arrive at destination for ITNR, that's 6 years down the road so it could also be reasonable as a non-ITNR to post the launch as to highlight the mission, as we did for JUICE Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/April 2023. — Masem (t) 01:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)- Worth noting that the "normal" is just "ITN/R criteria." The number of blue boxes I see indicates we do post plenty of ITN that isn't ITN/R. That said, I've continuously felt that the criteria list needs to stop shrinking (at this rate its arrival at Jupiter may no longer be ITN/R come 2030!) and could stand to add a few more, particularly "the successful departure of any spacecraft to a destination beyond the Earth-Moon system." Over the past 5 years there have been just 9 such launches; 5 to asteroids, (3 NEO, 2 main belt/beyond) 3 to Mars, and 2 to Jupiter; given the limited launch windows, those Mars launches were close enough to each other we could usually roll them into one FP item, too. Nottheking (talk) 22:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I misread that these were launched at the same time, they're sorta joint missions to explore Jupiter and its all moons.
- JUICE launched last year, so I'm not entirely sure why it'd be mentioned here. As for waiting, that could be a good idea but this seems to be a fairly significant launch and lines up with previous ITN launch posts (JUICE being one of them). Jone425 (talk) 22:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, in your face Arthur C. Clarke. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:00, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Support Very important mission, and largest interplanetary mission built by NASA. Elios Peredhel (talk) 23:06, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article in good shape. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:16, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Obviously a very notable event, why isn't this ITNR? - azpineapple | T/C 01:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's ITNR at arrival, just not automatically posted at launch. —Cryptic 05:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Europa is going to get some well-deserved scrutiny, it appears. Jusdafax (talk) 02:01, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support major probe. Scuba 04:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good, very notable and prevalent in the news Hungry403 (talk) 05:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support - but there's problems with the blurb. The blurb currently says "on a 6-year mission to the Jovian moon". The flight to Europa is 5.5 years, but I believe the mission at Europa is at least 4 years. Perhaps the blurb should say "on a 6-year flight ..." Nfitz (talk) 05:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Swapped 'mission' out in favour of 'journey', but I can change it to 'flight' if that's more appropriate. Jone425 (talk) 07:11, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose The launch seems unremarkable compared to the Starship catch and ITN is only running three blurbs currently. The real challenge for this mission is the intense radiation at the destination -- see Vulnerable transistors... We'll just have to wait and see how that goes. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:36, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's no mention of the launcher in the blurb, and only a fleeting reference in the target article. It's the spacecraft that's notable here. Nfitz (talk) 17:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's no mention of the launcher in my comment either. The event here is the "launch" and both blurbs use the verb to indicate this. The relevant section of the article has zero prose about the event and, instead has a lot of stuff about might-have-beens and also uses the future tense repeatedly. This is an inadequate update for what we'd be reporting here.
- Editors seem to be supporting this because they think it's a potentially important mission, not because we have a good report on something that has happened. Whether the mission turns out to be significant will not be known for years and it might never happen. That's why ITN/R recommends posting on arrival rather than departure. See WP:CRYSTAL.
- Andrew🐉(talk) 20:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's no mention of the launcher in the blurb, and only a fleeting reference in the target article. It's the spacecraft that's notable here. Nfitz (talk) 17:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support per Hungry403. Double sharp (talk) 10:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support. Major mission and the article is in decent shape. However there isn't much in the way of updates, just a statement that it launched. Yesterday I removed two entire sections that were many years out of date, and refrained from nominating because of the limited update. Several parts of the text are still in past tense or refer to potential future launch dates, not the actual one. This certainly should be posted, but I would prefer it if the other outdated statements were fixed. Altblurb added. Modest Genius talk 11:26, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose we've already established via many people's opinions of the Starship launch and catch that most users here think even revolutionary rocket catches out of mid-air are not significant. This is significantly less significant and in the news than a single run of the mill rocket launch such as the one that launched Europa Clipper. Ergzay (talk) 12:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- The importance here is the spacecraft and where it is going, not the launcher. Modest Genius talk 13:17, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- When the spacecraft reaches it's destination and missions is accomplished then we can blurb about it. Kcmastrpc (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think we should do both. Two blurbs six years apart isn't too much to ask. Modest Genius talk 12:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- The spacecraft hasn't achieved anything though. No discoveries made. That comes in 2030 when it arrives. Ergzay (talk) 06:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- When the spacecraft reaches it's destination and missions is accomplished then we can blurb about it. Kcmastrpc (talk) 16:30, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- The importance here is the spacecraft and where it is going, not the launcher. Modest Genius talk 13:17, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. It is a major interplanetary mission and it is being covered by WP:RS as a major interplanetary mission. The altblurb is fine. Nsk92 (talk) 16:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Point of order: say eg "Jupiter's moon" not "Jovian" in a blurb, the avg person-on-street doesn't know what that means (no they don't ask them if you don't believe me you are the outlier not them) --Slowking Man (talk) 16:24, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. The largest, heaviest, and most expensive interplanetary craft ever built. It is going to a place of extremely high astrobiological interest and has a fair chance of detecting life. If this doesn't deserve a blurb, then nothing relating to uncrewed spaceflight ever will. Agile Jello (talk) 16:36, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Per above. Both the Starship flight and this are extremely notable events in spaceflight and should be blurbed. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:45, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, per all above. Altblurb is better IMO. Alexcalamaro (talk) 18:50, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Altblurb While not ITN/R, the successful departure of a mission to an interplanetary voyage is an incredibly rare and notable thing, with just 9 across the past 5 years... And the Outer solar system is rarer still, with just 11 missions launched across the past 51 years. (all missions that have gone past Jupiter have flown by Jupiter as well)
- It's ITN/R when it arrives (assuming editors don't strip all spaceflight criteria from ITN/R by then...) but that won't be until 2030. Obviously this departure will have long-since fallen off of the front page by then!
- That said, maybe the AltBlurb could do without the first comma in it. Nottheking (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- I've removed the comma. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: at this moment, it is just another rocket launch. It's significance will be once it carries out its intended mission. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 22:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support due to the immense scientific interest in Europa as or right now. The outcomes of this mission - sea or not - will almost certainly be very impactful. I'd like a blurb that better explains this, if possible. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Added image for the launch from the page itself. Elios Peredhel (talk) 08:05, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support: It was launched on a Falcon Heavy after all. Kcmastrpc (talk) 17:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Altblurb per Notttheking and Slowkingman. Avoiding the term "Jovian" makes the lede more practical & understandable to the average main page reader. FlipandFlopped ツ 18:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb per above. The Kip (contribs) 18:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb. Very notable mission with a high-quality article. -insert valid name here- (talk) 18:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb Per above. Rynoip (talk) 21:33, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for arrival or data return. Launch itself is relatively routine. –DMartin 04:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: there are approximately five times as many support !votes as oppose/wait !votes, and the article has been updated. That seems sufficient to post. Marking as ready and pinging @Admins willing to post ITN: . Modest Genius talk 17:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted – Schwede66 23:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Thomas J. Donohue
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Axios
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:16, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nomcom. Nothing of note is wrong with the article. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 21:42, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 21:28, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Nobel Prize in Economics
[edit]Blurb: The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded to Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson for their studies "of how institutions are formed and affect prosperity". (Post)
Alternative blurb: The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded to Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson for their studies of global inequality.
Alternative blurb II: The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences is awarded to Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson for their studies of how institutions are formed and affect prosperity.
News source(s): The New York Times Noble Prize press release
Credits:
- Nominated by PrinceofPunjab (talk · give credit)
Article updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Both Johnson's, and Robinson's article are not ready and need some work. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 13:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support I think the articles are good enough. If one needs work it's the Acemoglu's. It's a big article thank god and but theres some low quality stuff there like turkish users that keep adding his high school to his "school of thought" category in the infobox 🤦♂️ P.S. added another alt blurb without the quotes since it's a verbatim citation that doesnt need quotes IMO Kasperquickly (talk) 14:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Almost there but not yet there Johnson article is missing references and Robinson article still has a banner above it.--ReyHahn (talk) 16:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, not a true Nobel. 2804:388:4101:7F22:1:0:2B66:205B (talk) 17:19, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- This is an ITNR item, so the importance is not in doubt. We're only assessing the updates and article quality. Modest Genius talk 18:21, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Acemoglu's article is in very good shape. Johnson's article is bit light but does meet our minimum requirements. Robinson's is somewhere in between but also good enough to post - the tag is yellow level, which does not disqualify from ITN (only orange and red tags do). I do question what sort of 'institutions' are being referred to in the blurb - could that be clarified? Modest Genius talk 18:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb2 seems to be the way to go.--ReyHahn (talk) 18:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Modest Genius: You're raising a great question on what sort of 'institutions' are being referred to. After taking a quick look at some of the articles, it seems like 'Institutions' is the right target article as it contains a few sentences in which the work of the three authors is explained in the context of how institutions contribute to economic growth (see
... Daron Acemoglu, Simon Johnson, and James A. Robinson agree with the analysis presented by North. They write that institutions play a crucial role in the trajectory of economic growth because economic institutions shape the opportunities and constraints of investment.[15] Economic incentives also shape political behavior, as certain groups receive more advantages from economic outcomes than others, which allow them to gain political control. A separate paper by Acemoglu, Robinson, and Francisco A. Gallego details the relationships between institutions, human capital, and economic development. They argue that there institutions set an equal playing field for competition, making institutional strength a key factor in economic growth...
). Linking to institutional economics would be inappropriate as the field is much broader, and the article does not even mention any of the authors (in fact, their work falls within development economics instead).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Articles look good enough for posting. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:43, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- All three biographies have unreferenced paragraphs. Stephen 22:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
- oppose articles are NOT updated. Just the one line in the lead.
- update Acemoglu's article is updated a bit more, although could further update.Sportsnut24 (talk) 01:07, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posting. All articles are in a good shape. For awards, there is only as much as can be said without going into excessive details, so it is fine. --Tone 09:15, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Tone: I don't think the choice of the blurb was right. We usually use the wording in the statement of the Nobel Committee, which is 'for studies of how institutions are formed and affect prosperity'. There's no notion of 'research on global inequality', and this is largely original research by The New York Times.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
References
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