Talk:Soviet crewed lunar programs

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Discussion

Under the "Korolev's Soyuz concept" section, there is a sentence that says, "Chelomei's project had the lead until 1964 when a change of Soviet leadership swung behind Stalin."

Stalin died in 1953. Is this statement a typo, or has someone tampered with the actual article?

209.124.55.236 12:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is corrected now. It is "swung behind Korolev". Ricnun 21:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs cleanup? Steady! I only just started writing it...

There were four failed launch, not two... 194.100.185.1 08:02, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Given that, the following quote needs to be changed somewhat: "Four N1 launches were attempted but both were failures and the second destroyed the launch complex." --cfmdobbie

Complexity not weakness

The N1 was actually powerful enough to send men to the Moon, but with 30 small engines slapped together, it greatly magnified the complexity and risk of failure. That's why it blew up on the launchpad. LeoO3 03:10, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Early Soviet Plans

There are records of papers in 1955 commissioning the N1 studies for a lunar landing after 1970 using Earth Orbit Rendevous. This should change the line about the Soviets not having serious plans before 1964. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.239.194 (talk) 10:03, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why was it kept secret???

Just out of curiosity, why was this kept "heavily secret"? At least, why before they "lost" .. what's the point of a space race if not to inflame your population with a desire to compete?

The point, ultimately, was prestige (at least on a political level), little of which would be gained by finishing second in a two man race. Better (from the Soviet perspective) to hedge your bets by denying there was a race to the Moon unless you could be absolutely confident of success.172.190.13.225 (talk) 06:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you remember the Cold War, or were you born afterwards? The Soviets kept everything secret. Nothing was announced until after it was successfully completed. 65.94.45.160 (talk) 10:44, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The soviets weren't really interested in what their own people thought of them... That's what guns are for. It was what the rest of the world thought of them that mattered. Drewder (talk) 17:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"LK-1" and "LK-700" spacecraft

May be not the best source (I'm short on time to search for other sources), but here and here a "LK-1" and "LK-700" spacecraft is described, which is basically a the predecessor of the VA spacecraft (or actually the VA spacecraft), designed by OKB-52, launched by a Proton. Don't know how this fits in here, but I haven't seen much descriptions or any images of LK-1 and LK-700 spacecraft here on wikipedia, only the countless Soyuz derivates designed by OKB-1.

Furthermore, there are images of an assembled VA based lunar spacecraft (LK-700?), so it was more than a "proposal" by Chelomey. --Tony Mach (talk) 17:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Where can I find photographs?

Where can I find photographs, published studies and other material about the Soviet moon landings? Why is it kept in secrecy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.182.84.238 (talk) 08:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What landings? If you mean the Luna and Lunokhod landers, I suggest you start with the Wikipedia articles and follow the links/references. If you mean the manned program, there were no Russian manned landings! If they'd persevered they would have sorted the issues and made it, but the Kremlin decided it wasn't worth the expense to be second in the race to put a man on the moon, and publically always denied they were in the race at all! It was only after the collapse of the USSR that it was finally confirmed that the Russians were seriously in the race. The USSR, despite their successes, didn't even televise a launch until 1971. The equivalent would be asking to see pictures and details of the tests of the U2 and SR-71 prototypes or the Aurora (if it even exists!). Remember the N1 never had a successful launch, and the other equipment (Soyuz apart) was never used for the purpose for which it was designed. So there was no reason for the USSR to release pictures of a cancelled program. No doubt relatively few pictures were taken, and they would have been classified. Doubtless there is a lot more material in the Russian archives, but you'd have to go over and dig them out, and have time and permission to do so. Many of the people who were involved are now dead, and much of the material is likely buried or was shredded when the program was cancelled. There isn't some "conspiracy" it's just that there is likely not a lot of material, and it's hard to access. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.78.193 (talk) 06:29, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Work still needed after requested copy edit

I spent an exhausting 20 minutes making a requested copy edit on part of the article.

Going to the French Wiki article that was apparently the source, I find much additional information, not all necessarily encyclopedic. Someone who is an enthusiast and fairly fluent in reading/translating French needs to pick up the ball, here.

This is an important part of human history. Had the Soviet launches succeeded, the United States might very well have responded by continuing the Apollo Program. Leptus Froggi (talk) 19:08, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Graphics issues

The graphics such as Tmk-mavr.jpg are generated by 3D software rendering, decades after the fact, and without establishing accuracy. It's one thing for the Russian space agencies to produce and release an official rendering, it's another for a random, uncredited person such as Eberhard Marx to create a simplified and possibly significantly inaccurate image, as with MondraumLOK.jpg.

Obviously someone is trying to do Wikipedia a good turn, but my guess is any number of renderings could be done given the specifications. A misrepresentation here could have significant consequences, since inevitably when new lunar expeditions are planned, people will look at previous references such as Wikipedia. Leptus Froggi (talk) 19:55, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Soviet crewed lunar programs/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Under the "Korolev's Soyuz concept" section, there is a sentence that says, "Chelomei's project had the lead until 1964 when a change of Soviet leadership swung behind Stalin."

Stalin died in 1953. Is this statement a typo, or has someone tampered with the actual article?

209.124.55.236 12:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 01:53, 1 January 2012 (UTC). Substituted at 06:37, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Crewed

I have moved this article from "manned" to "crewed" in line with the official NASA History Style Guide: http://history.nasa.gov/styleguide.html. But I am having trouble with an alternative to the iconic phrase "land a man on the moon" - I wonder whether this should stay, in line with being an explicit quotation, or is there a good alternative? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dicaeopolis (talk • contribs) 08:58, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I note this has been changed to "person". I find that dishonest. There were no female astronauts or cosmonauts in either moon programme. I'd like to see this changed back to "men". It's no good trying to be politically correct at a time when the concept hadn't been invented and things like rocketry were considered men's work.

Marchino61 (talk) 00:41, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I mostly agree, except for the last bit about "a time when rocketry was considered men's work." the USSR had already sent a woman into space by this time; however, the fact is simply there were no female cosmonauts (or astronauts) in either moon program. This just simply IS what it IS, and like you said, trying to pretend that it wasn't what it was is dishonest and historical revisionism. (Besides, what say we about the current Artemis program? That it intends to send the "next persons" to the moon? Nay, we say that it intends to send the first woman and the next man to the moon.) Firejuggler86 (talk) 00:38, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Support Lunokhods source

Is there a source for the two Lunokhods? Couldn't find it anywhere, although it seems somewhat reasonable. SpacePilotMax (talk) 18:28, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RfC concerning the article content

Was the Soviet plan of crewed lunar mission attempted by a single program or by a series of programs? The Wikipédia en français says that it was attempted by a single program, while this article says that it was attempted by a series of programs. --Soumyabrata ^{stay at home} _{wash your hands} ^{to protect from coronavirus} 06:22, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Space Race Denial

Uhh, could the denial be a context issue? From what I learned, the Soviet Union had already achieved lunar/space missions long before Kennedy ever said a peep...could they have meant that it was in fact the other way around? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.238.16.219 (talk) 23:14, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]