Talk:Pon farr

Untitled

The following was contributed at Ponn Farr, and is in some ways the better article--there's probably more that could be merged...

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In the fictional Star Trek universe, a Vulcan condition that induces the desire to mate in an adult Vulcan. Symptoms generally include a chemical imbalance and loss of logic and emotional control.

Typically, a Vulcan will undergo the Ponn farr every 7 years of their adult life. During this time, one would generate the urge to return to their homeworld to find a mate. However, there are other means of treating the Ponn farr. Besides taking a mate one may challenge to a fight for death.

First appeared in Star Trek "Amok Time" written by Theodore Sturgeon.

QUESTION

If Vulcans mate often -- does that push off the onset of ponn farr (or lessen its impact)?

It is hard to imagine a planet where every day a significant number of persons are aroused to the point of violence.  If the entire adult population is subject to it -- that could be millions or tens of millions every year.  Almost every day on Vulcan would see thousands of ponn farr cases.  That does not seem likely.

But if regular mating pushes off the ponn farr, it makes it more mystical, more cultural, more rare. Only those who are truly committed to logic -- and celibacy -- would face it. Or persons in careers (like Starfleet) where opportunities might be more rare. The stories around cases of ponn farr all seem to involve Vulcans who are isolated (i.e., Spock on the Enterprise, Tuvok on Voyager, etc.) with few opportunities for regular mating to avoid ponn farr. And its rare nature...would make it more frightening for those who face it. Chesspride216.144.161.51 (talk) 23:45, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

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Capitalization is inconsistent

The capitalization of the term needs to be made consistent throughout the article. -- J44xm 03:38, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

For that matter, several spelling variations of the term have been seen over the decades, including not only Pon Farr and Ponn Farr, but also "Ponu Faru." -- Logical Vulcan Linguist Girl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.226.132.7 (talk) 09:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

The "Ponu Faru" spelling is from an old module-like publication printed sometime in the late 70s, I think. I have a copy around here somewhere, but I'm not sure exactly where, or else I could provide the reference; I believe it was the first mass publication of any attempt to produce a lexicon of the Vulcan language. iirc, the author said that this spelling was meant to reflect the fact that the Vulcan culture was modelled on Japanese culture, and Japanese "u" is often unpronounced. I also don't remember him (or her) indicating that any other orthographic convention existed for the word. I'll have to dig out my James Blish novelizations of the original series and see if he gives any other spelling. -- Logical Vulcan Linguist Girl (yup, the same one, just from a different IP now) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.195.200.178 (talk) 19:26, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect tense

Fixed incorrect tense in

"allowing the Vulcan to becoming bonded and to satisfy his urges."

Spock

"There is no canonical indication that Spock ever again experienced pon farr."

Well.. if you want to get technical, Spock experienced pon farr again in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock as a result of the genesis wave resurrecting him. BirdbrainedPhoenix 15:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Why the quotes around aided? I assume the implication here is that she mated with Spock. Unless you can cite this fact, remove the quotes. 72.85.148.226 (talk) 17:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC) Timothy

I agree, and while I'm several years late for this discussion, I've removed the quotes. BirdbrainedPhoenix (talk) 02:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

T'Pol

I know this is original research, but in Enterprise episode 2x25 Bounty, once T'Pol is healed, Dr. Phlox notes that T'Pol's "premature mating cycle has ended" implying that she knows when it's supposed to occur, meaning she has experienced it before. What do you think? Sxeraverx 19:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletion nomination

Article nominated for deletion - article has a lot of information in it - but the article is in-universe and needs to be primarily real-world. That said, if the article was to shed the in-universe information it would not have enough real-world information to stand alone on its own. Maybe merge into the Vulcan page to save the article? But remember, that page as well needs to be real-world primarily. Articles like this are better suited for memory alpha and not Wikipedia. Ejfetters 23:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Result was no consensus, but you can discuss possible merging since several respondents voted to merge.--JForget 00:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd just like to drop a note that I'd be strongly in favour of merging with the general Vulcan article 81.111.115.63 (talk) 12:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pon farr.jpg

Image:Pon farr.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 10:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Tuvok

No one mentioned Lieutenant Tuvok from Voyager. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.13.47 (talk) 02:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Why the fan fiction emphasis?

Is homoerotic fan fiction really a significant enough part of the Star Trek universe that the majority of this entry has to refer to it? And not a single mention of Star Trek III? 99.232.87.203 (talk) 02:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC) Helo

I agree. The article should include a summary of what we know of Pon farr from the various Star Trek series' (it's seriously lacking there), and simply include mention of the homoerotic aspects of fan fiction. Dave 02:35, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed! It legitimizes fan faction to a degree atypical of Wikipedia entries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.65.85 (talk) 20:02, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

All references and citings of fan fiction should be removed. Fan fiction is prevelent in modern society but it has never been accepted as A. cannon B. legitimate source for reference and citing. I once read a rediculous online fan fiction about how Frodo and Gandalf were gay lovers... One would never cite this as an example of homosexuality in Middle Earth. It would be proposterous as is including fan fiction citings here.72.85.148.226 (talk) 17:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC) Timothy

Fan Fiction references should be removed. As stated above, they are not cannon. Additionally, they are not sanctioned, approved, edited, or linked to the series holder. This is as ridiculous as including the possibility that Gimli and Legolas have "something else" going on during the journey. Please remove it. Please please please remove it. It sucks the academia right out of Wikipedia. 74.248.208.84 (talk) 18:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah seriously, who wrote this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.179.20.184 (talk) 11:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Fanfic should only be a footnote, if mentioned at all. Delete. --Navstar (talk) 18:52, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Saavik

Saavik went through Pon Farr if any of you read Star Trek DC Comics 7 and 8 in 1984. Xon explained she was going through Pon Farr and had a fever.

Cultural Refrences?

Should a section be started about references in popular culture? like the episode of futurama where Zoidberg goes into a similar mating cycle? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.71.60.101 (talk) 02:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

This is irrelevent to the subject of Pon Farr nor is there direct evidence that that the two have any correlation. 72.85.148.226 (talk) 17:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

As there has been no consensus or reference to support this, I have removed this reference from the article. --RedHillian | Talk 00:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Dilbert pon farr arc in January 2011

Today is the second strip of a story arc on Dilbert that has a pon farr as its subject. I expect a couple more to come. If people keep removing and re-adding that information every day, this would turn into a little edit war of sorts. Can we please agree here on whether or not this reference should be on the page? I think it should or at least I don't see a reason why it shouldn't especially now that it seems to be mentioned in more than one or two strips. --Vertigo-1 (talk) 15:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

The 'arc' seems to have fizzled out now, after three strips - I'd like to suggest we wait a week or so to see if there's a re-emergence of the theme, but if not we quietly remove it - 3 strips is less than 1% of the Dilbert output in a single year and hardly notable of itself. It's probably worth keeping the diffs for the edit noted here in case it becomes notable again though. --RedHillian | Talk 03:10, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Several weeks later, and the cycle did indeed go no further. Unless there's any objections I'll be taking the mention of Dilbert out in the next couple of days. --RedHillian | Talk 02:23, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Done. --RedHillian | Talk 00:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Wtf?

This entire Wikipedia has solidified the life long fact that star trek truly had some of the most illogical, poorly planned, and irrational story writing. If pon farr is so secret how does anyone even know about it period at all? The detachment the writing has from actual events required to actually make half the story work never works. How does a Vulcan orphan learn about pon farr? How does puberty play into it? How does varying lengths of pregnancy affect it? Even if vulcans only had sex in pon farr there would still be enough variation with pregnancy, onset of puberty, and general population that pointing out pon farr or casual sex as different really doesn't matter. The end result would be death if ignored, even though argument could be made casual sex would obviously control the biological urges every 7 years anyways. It's as if a man was writing everything and decided it'd be real sad if the world wasn't aware vulcans need to sling dick or die (man's worst nightmare obviously) and came to the conclusion fans would never understand the horribly conceived idea unless given a disturbing amount of story telling behind it, with multiple episodes dedicated to it. It's an easy to gloss over concept if simply presented as a hormonal change something like in the animal kingdom, or regular people, but the extra absurd details of every 7 years the universe just magically makes them wanna fuck, the fact fucking casually doesn't help control it, the fact it seems to be necessary to be part Vulcan, even though Spock's got a human parent, unless I'm wrong and fucking a human still does the trick since apparently a holographic is good enough even though the holograph was the Vulcan wife, which just raises more questions how fucking a ghost basically controls pon farr better than casual sex or possibly better than basic han sex. The literature in the wiki doesn't do a good job of describing any of it in any way that would make me think it's interesting, it makes me wish they stopped wasting time early on trying to make vulcans porn freaks every 7 years, and explained it as a basic 7 year hormone thing or something. Then spent more time writing episodes without this concept, and just wrote a better, more logically written and appropriately relevant show and episodes. Not some weirdly secretive thing almost nobody is supposed to know about, which by canon should cover the 4th wall of our perception of it. Defeats the purpose and any shot this idea had at being interesting or cool the second they claim it's universally taboo to the point of medical malpractice to keep it secret, yet they ruin that by telling you every single thing about it. Cause the best part of a magic show is the whole thing being spoiled ya know, the best part of a movie is someone spoiling every minute of it during it ya know, makes total sense to build up a possibly interesting concept like Vulcan sex being harder than owning a fucking gremlin and then immediately ruining it with a copout like holographic sex instead. Why introduce it at all if you're not only gonna not let it be secret like it's supposed to be, but you're also gonna give the most excuses and phallic reasons why the concept shouldn't and doesn't even need to exist when they can fuck a ghost and avoid the entire experience? Chime in if I sound crazy, but it just comes across as a plot point built as solid as a card house that wasn't thought through, and the further explanations and plot holes against it are even less thought through. 174.53.175.204 (talk) 15:01, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

• • • Talk pages are not really for discussion -- but let's consider your points.

1. If ponn farr is secret -- how does anyone know about it. VULCANS know about it, just like Humans know about Human menstruation. But non-Vulcans may not know about it...as Vulcans do not talk about it very openly. 2. Casual sex apparently does not work -- ponn farr is a mental condition, it requires an emotional bond with the partner, not simply a physical release. Otherwise, they would simply masturbate. 3. It actually makes the Vulcan culture more mystifying -- i.e. are they really so shy and stuck-up that simple biology causes them these problems? Or -- is there a dirty underside to Vulcan culture the shows have not explored? Logical Vulcans are stoic -- they deny the emotions and the physical. So one can imagine that a certain large segment of the Vulcan population tries very hard to live up to those stoic values...leading to the extreme emotional need every 7 years. 4. See my earlier question as to whether periodic sex with a committed partner pushes off the onset of ponn farr. I find that to be the preferred solution, rather than the notion that 1/7th the population of Vulcan is in ponn farr every year. Chesspride216.144.161.51 (talk) 00:06, 18 March 2023 (UTC)